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Offline Ron Graham  
#91 Posted : Sunday, August 19, 2018 11:16:39 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
It is about spending the money wisely, prudently and getting the most for what we do spend for our needs within IMAC. About some research and some options.


Doug,
As a leader who is making decisions on the issue and personally thinks this is a good idea, could you go into more details? Are you saying that it is or is not worth the effort and money to test, research and beta a new path? What amount (if any) of the budget would you be willing to spend toward testing? If and when the system was vetted out, what would our current and future budget be willing to sustain?
Offline Doug Pilcher  
#92 Posted : Sunday, August 19, 2018 11:48:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Ron Graham Go to Quoted Post
Doug,
As a leader who is making decisions on the issue and personally thinks this is a good idea, could you go into more details? Are you saying that it is or is not worth the effort and money to test, research and beta a new path? What amount (if any) of the budget would you be willing to spend toward testing? If and when the system was vetted out, what would our current and future budget be willing to sustain?



Part A and B: IT IS worth every bit of monies to test research and beta! Yes! So far in my limited time to research and I will admit that as IWC is my primary tasks list currently. But I have seen from $300.00 from the system Manrico is testing all the way to $2500.00 for Patterns system. However I have also learned that AMA has one we might could borrow for testing of Pattern System. And I will be at the AMA headquarters for nearly 11 days starting at end of the month. This becomes the first part of the 2 part question. Part B is somewhere in that range when it is decided what is best path to follow and then to include what I would say is Part C and I had asked for waaaay up in the thread of volunteer(s) to take the lead of beta testing with a plan of sorts as to how many contests they could realistically run thru the system and it's reach and travel for the testing. I have received one email of a volunteer only, and not yet received what his plan will be as of yet. But I also know he is also quite busy with IWC as well. I really want this to work, thus as many contests as we can throw at it, to find issues and resolve issues and be prepared as I also said above in thread with a backup in place being Paper, Pen and Scribe regardless. Just good sense to me.

Part D?: Now let's assume somewhere in that range of $300 to $2500 we find "That System"? The one that works as close to flawlessly (still electronics after all) as possible. That is when the last part of your question would come in to play and need to be addressed Ron. Need a per unit cost, then a per region cost to find out a total cost.
Doug Pilcher
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Offline Chuck Edwards  
#93 Posted : Monday, August 20, 2018 9:58:15 AM(UTC)
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Doug,

Not trying to be cross here, but we already have a significant amount of volunteers in place (RD’s,ARD’s ect). If I am not mistaken the NC ARD has offered to be a beta tester, please correct me if I am wrong on this, I did not scroll back to confirm. So my question is, who is driving this train? Tasking needs to be handled from the top down and delagate it out to the RD’s and ARD’s. This process of constantly asking for more volunteers to spearhead ideas that are brought forward is exhausting.

I’ll write more later, I have to go for now...
Charles Edwards
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Charles Lewis on 8/20/2018(UTC), Ron Graham on 8/20/2018(UTC)
Offline Doug Pilcher  
#94 Posted : Monday, August 20, 2018 10:57:47 AM(UTC)
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Not being cross either Chuck.
NC RD did "post" he was interested. That is not what I had asked for. Look up in thread. I asked for emails. So incorrect Chuck.

As to the train, I offered up the bringing to BOD and then I will do needed research to the platform to suggest from that point and the behind the scenes work to integrate with Score!. The Volunteers were tasked with the plan, the contests, the movement of the system and the results, both good and bad and to have a secondary measure in place. I think I am taking on my part here.

What more is it you think I need to be doing Chuck?

Earnestly, not smart remarked on my part truly.

Doug Pilcher
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Offline Adi Kochav  
#95 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2018 1:27:24 AM(UTC)
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We are on the final line to make electronic scoring works with our own Score! Program.

We’re on the phase of beta testing it in several International contest now and it will even has languages selection and phonetics like on our Navigation system audio ... nice !

Here is a word from our developer Dan Carrol from Australia.

“Time for another update…
Even though we did not have our comp I’ve spent a lot of time on this as I want to demonstrate it at our upcoming National comp.

We’ll still use out current system but I want to have some people live test the new system as well…

Since the last email I’ve entered a complete comp into the Notaumatics and am happy to say the scores came out perfect.
With the updated firmware from Roland we even have break penalties now…

The other thing I have been working on is the ‘Sequences’ section of Score:


You will notice some key differences.
There is a description panel that lest you set the Description , a short name and the language.
Each figure has a short description which is what will appear on the Notaumatic screen.
Beside that there is a button. This opens a new dialog where you can type the text that will be read to the judge:
You can record the audio yourself, (and listen to it) but if the text is written, then you can also generate the sound files using google’s text to speech services. The “Generate Spoken Files” button on the previous page will do that.


In the example above I’ve generated the basic sequence files using an “English Australian Female voice…”
Google has lots of options here, and it sounds really very natural. I’ve attached it as an example.

Of course this does not take away the need to have the schedule in front of you but it’s a nice feature of the Notaumatic so I’ve supported it.

Finally the sequences section will also save the correct Notaumatic scoring parameter (to make sure the scores are in half units for normal figures, whole units for sound/airspace and 0.5 for freestyle
The idea is when you have created all of the sequence files you can upload them to the Flightline device and copy them onto the SD card of the Notaumatic…

The setup will be quite quick and easy to do.

Anyway, that’s it for now...

-Dan



On 11 Oct 2018, at 4:37 pm, Dan Carroll <dan@carroll.id.au> wrote


Definitely keeping the paper is the way to go.
Also writing the Pilot/Round is important.

To get around the limitations of Notaumatic one thing you need to remember is that the ‘Flight number’ that Notaumatic knows about has no relevance to the round number in Score!.

Notaumatic knows how to identify which flight is which only the following ways.
Comp ID
Pilot ID
Flight ID
Judge ID


The Comp ID is the class.
Pilot ID is a new ID field in Score!
Judge ID is simply the number of the judge (1 or 2 for 2 judges).
We cannot use individual ID’s for each judge as Score! has never been configured for this (Later on however you’ll be able to enter the Judges Name to the score sheet).
Finally Flight ID is the difficult one. It starts at 1 and just gets incremented for each sequence flown (Known or Unknown).
If the round is a double, then that round has 2 flights in it (even if the pilot does not actually land).

So lets say at a comp Sportsman flies a known double, then an unknown, then a known single…
That’s 4 flights per pilot.
Flight 1 = Round 1 (Known), Seq 1
Flight 2 = Round 1 (Known), Seq 2
Flight 3 = Round 2 (Known), Seq 1
Flight 4 = Round 3 (Unknown)

The Judges just need to click on the next flight they want to score and the Notaumatics will do the rest…
Here is a screen shot of how the first round (Known Double looks).

The orange one is the one that the judges are about to start scoring.
There are 3 pilots but they are listed twice for this round because the are flying 2




In the image below you see what a single sequence looks like. Same pilots…
There is no ‘Next Flight’ selected because the judges have not clicked on anyone yet.
1ED03A01-F219-4C3D-9207-091350A1BF1F.png (610kb) downloaded 2 time(s). B2630569-D9E2-43FC-9F5F-38E8DAC09321.png (65kb) downloaded 2 time(s). BA98288B-98C7-43C6-94B4-3E6C27AAB99C.png (285kb) downloaded 1 time(s).
thanks 2 users thanked Adi Kochav for this useful post.
Doug Pilcher on 10/25/2018(UTC), rclad on 10/25/2018(UTC)
Offline Toby W. Silhavy  
#96 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2018 1:53:04 AM(UTC)
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This is awesome Adi!
Toby Silhavy
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USA USA USA USA 🇺🇸
Offline Manrico Mincuzzi  
#97 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2018 2:44:45 AM(UTC)
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We have been using the Noutamatic system to manage the five competitions of the IMAC Italian Championship.
The French software has benn adapted, with some limitations, to our needs and we have learned to deal with the instabilities of this system that is not yet perfectly developed.
I can say that the job of the judges has been significantly facilitated and the organizational load amazingly reduced. Expecially at the IMAC ITALIAN CUP, with almost 60 participants on two flight lines.
So this is clearly a bright future that we need to materialize and stabilize as soon as possible.
The work that Dan is conducting is of paramount importance, in order to have an IMAC software capable to completely integrate the Noutamatic technology with our system and hopefully, at the same time, to stabilize and make more IMAC user friendly this system that has been design to support FAI competitions.
We shoul provide great recognition to the wonderful job that Dan is performing.
thanks 6 users thanked Manrico Mincuzzi for this useful post.
michaeljr on 10/25/2018(UTC), Orthobird on 10/25/2018(UTC), Doug Pilcher on 10/25/2018(UTC), Ray Morton on 10/25/2018(UTC), Toby W. Silhavy on 10/25/2018(UTC), rclad on 10/25/2018(UTC)
Offline Vicente Bortone  
#98 Posted : Tuesday, June 11, 2019 4:19:21 PM(UTC)
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Hello all,

Yes, it has been long since last one. I want to share something of interests in regard the Electronic Scribe by Peter Vogel. I discovered that you can download the electronic scribe to the i-phone. It works great but I don't know if works in other phones. You just need to download the app called "Electronic Scribe". Click on the "Demo Contest" and you will have a full running electronic scribe in your finger tips to practice in your cellular phone. Select a any judge number like 101 or 201. The select the class and round. Then select any contestant and keep going to practice. The actual buttons in the app works like the ones you will use during the contest. The classes and maneuvers of course are not IMAC. That is not a problem since we just want to use this to show how the system works. This video from Peter is good to watch so you have a better idea how easy is to use it. Here the video:



Probably this was shown before and I forgot. If that is the case, I apologize in advance. However, I think makes sense to retake this subject again.

Best regards,

Vicente "Vince" Bortone
Offline Chuck Edwards  
#99 Posted : Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:30:11 AM(UTC)
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Vince,

IMAC cannot stomach the cost or see a viable way to convert score to work with it...
Charles Edwards
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thanks 1 user thanked Chuck Edwards for this useful post.
Charles Lewis on 6/14/2019(UTC)
Offline Adi Kochav  
#100 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2019 12:17:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Chuck Edwards Go to Quoted Post
Vince,

IMAC cannot stomach the cost or see a viable way to convert score to work with it...


We’re now having Score! Working with 2 different gadgets, iPads, iPods with a specific app developed for it and the Notaumatic system that was programmed to work with Score!
Dan Carrol is now trying to make a program that will work with Peters system.
So the problem is which one to choose.
There is no secret though that we do try to find the most robust one.
Offline Vicente Bortone  
#101 Posted : Saturday, June 15, 2019 8:27:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Chuck Edwards Go to Quoted Post
Vince,

IMAC cannot stomach the cost or see a viable way to convert score to work with it...


IMAC BOD should ask the "average IMAC pilot" = the one that goes to several IMAC contests a year to donate ~$100 for the system for his region. IMAC BOD should consider to donate $~500 so their system could be used at the NATS. Well we know ~$100 is nothing compare what an "average IMAC pilot" invest in his planes. Give or take, I am sure that this is the way to get it done.

Check this out: https://www.facebook.com...1054301323&sfns=xmwa
Offline Brad  
#102 Posted : Saturday, June 15, 2019 10:46:25 AM(UTC)
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There are many considerations that we are trying to balance, only one of which is cost. We want to make sure whatever system we endorse is the right system, not just the right now system. We’ll get there.

Brad
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Vicente Bortone on 6/15/2019(UTC)
Offline Dan Carroll  
#103 Posted : Saturday, June 15, 2019 4:20:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Brad Go to Quoted Post
There are many considerations that we are trying to balance, only one of which is cost. We want to make sure whatever system we endorse is the right system, not just the right now system. We’ll get there.

Brad


I'm not a usual follower of these forums, so I have not seen this thread until now.
As the current author of both Score! and various other pieces of software that support IMAC I believe I have some relevant input to give.

Brad that is a good point about choosing a right system. Let me outline the approach I am taking.

As I said, I author Score!. I also author ScorePad (the iPad app for scoring) and some new software "FlightLine" which is a shim between Score! and (currently) NotauMatics. There's a few reasons for having a 'shim' probably the biggest one is that having a laptop running all the time on each flightline to receive scores from the judges is not viable everywhere. So FlightLine runs on a low power wifi device and collects scores and the Score computer can sync whenever the CD wants.

ScorePad operates on it's own (it stores scores locally until the CD is ready to download them) so no need for a wifi network until then.

Two different approaches to the same problem... Each have their pros and cons which I'm happy to discuss if people wish to hear (we've beed doing electronic scoring very successfully for 7 or 8 years now).

As for what will be chosen or endorsed... Well I cannot speak for the BOD but I can say that there are some contest directors that want a NotauMatic based system, and some that want to keep ScorePad. And there is thirst for support for Peter's excellent device.

As far as I am concerned I will support all... ScorePad is mature and very well liked amongst those that use it (Australia, the UK with Sweden hopefully next year) and NotauMatic brings some advantages to the table that I wish to support. Italy love the device. When I have some time I will work with Peter to also support his app in much the same way as NotauMatic, that wont be hard, but I need to make sure that FlightLine is ready with NotauMatic first because there is keen interest right now. The result will be a system that allows the CD (and perhaps even the Judge to choose their device of preference.

Lastly, I have a 'Slack' collaboration space that some of us have been using for discussions about this.
If anyone wants to join, I'd welcome you to come along. Just email me at dan @ carroll.id.au and I will send an invite.
Offline Brad  
#104 Posted : Saturday, June 15, 2019 6:10:52 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the update Dan. I’d be very interested to try the ipad version. I’ve been setting up a local area network at all my contest with a raspberry Pi running the score program and a local web service to display the scores. What I’ve been hoping for is a simple “shim” that is platform independent with a very simple interface similar to the tally counter I use. (Tally pro). That way a person can use their own device and just link to the score program.

Anyway, looking forward to hearing more!

Brad
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Vicente Bortone on 6/16/2019(UTC), Chuck Edwards on 6/17/2019(UTC)
Offline Dan Carroll  
#105 Posted : Monday, June 17, 2019 4:49:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Brad Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the update Dan. I’d be very interested to try the ipad version. I’ve been setting up a local area network at all my contest with a raspberry Pi running the score program and a local web service to display the scores. What I’ve been hoping for is a simple “shim” that is platform independent with a very simple interface similar to the tally counter I use. (Tally pro). That way a person can use their own device and just link to the score program.
Anyway, looking forward to hearing more!
Brad


Wow Brad that sounds interesting....

So you use rPi with some kind of remote desktop software to control it?

I think I can introduce you to a few features that will really help you out...
First off, Score! already has the ability to serve the results - no need for a separate web server actually..

Do you have access to a couple of iPads? If so then lets get you set up on a couple so you can experiment with ScorePad...
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