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Offline Howard Pilcher  
#46 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 12:36:28 PM(UTC)
Howard Pilcher

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Exactly, three locations alternating, west coast, central (Muncie) and east coast. Every third year a National you can feasibly attend and maybe attend in all of them.
RIP Dalton Extra 300SP W/DLE 222 & JR 8931 servos - Spektrum DX 18 Radio
thanks 1 user thanked Howard Pilcher for this useful post.
Kevin Wilson on 7/15/2019(UTC)
Offline Dave Villwock  
#47 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 1:10:35 PM(UTC)
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Howard

That's a good idea. Don't forget about the location and the format must change to at least a two day Finals type of thing to differentiate this NATIONALS contest from other regional contests.
This type of event needs Curb appeal and prestige to be successful long term. With this many pilots more judges will also be available. So, a different way of judge numbers used and how they are used is possible..

This is a chance the think and change for the better.
Offline Mike Karnes  
#48 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 5:45:00 PM(UTC)
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Who are the 3 Event Directors going to be and what venues have you secured? You have 45 days to come up with a plan and to approach the BOD
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Offline Kevin Garland  
#49 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2019 11:51:25 PM(UTC)
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With me having the Shootout on my plate again this year, I am trying to fit in time to find a decent location on West Coast side. I will get the ball rolling by starting a new thread for people to post their field suggestions so we have this all at one place. I would like the format to not be in that discussion as we need to take this one step at a time.
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Offline Chuck Edwards  
#50 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:11:56 AM(UTC)
Chuck Edwards

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I would suggest using the respective RD’s to fill those rolls with the aid of members from the BOD...
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Offline Kevin Wilson  
#51 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 6:58:42 AM(UTC)
Kevin Wilson

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Originally Posted by: Mike Karnes Go to Quoted Post
Who are the 3 Event Directors going to be and what venues have you secured? You have 45 days to come up with a plan and to approach the BOD

If the BOD is on board with a rotating East, Central, West NATS, I would like to see a somewhat more proactive approach than sitting back and waiting on members to come up with a plan. If the BOD is not on board, I would like to see comments as to why or why not directly from them. I would also like an answer to the specific costs involved with holding NATS at Muncie (4th ask?). If for some reason this does not need to be public, feel free to PM me or email me. kwilson@deximaging.com

Thank you,
Kevin

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Silver Fox on 7/16/2019(UTC), Ron Graham on 7/16/2019(UTC), Curtis Cozier on 7/19/2019(UTC)
Offline Chuck Edwards  
#52 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 7:41:12 AM(UTC)
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Kevin,

Not trying to be negative here, but this is a typical answer that the BOD seems to give out a lot... You bring an idea to them and they want volunteers to do the footwork, a prime example is the electronic scoring idea that was presented last year. Now to the point.. If you look back at the past approved budgets you can see how much is allocated for the Nats. I am not sure as to where to find this information on the website.
Charles Edwards
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thanks 3 users thanked Chuck Edwards for this useful post.
Silver Fox on 7/16/2019(UTC), Ron Graham on 7/16/2019(UTC), Curtis Cozier on 7/19/2019(UTC)
Offline Kevin Wilson  
#53 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:10:19 AM(UTC)
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I could be wrong, but I dont think that will show a breakdown, ie
Field rental
banquet cost
camping fees
tent fees
entrance fees
Offline Krzy4rc  
#54 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:11:30 AM(UTC)
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Kevin,
I had committed to be the Event Director if the Nats were back in Muncie. I will certainly plan on helping in any way, if we change the venue.
I think to get the budget info, you will need to contact Alex (RD) and he will have to get that info from Phil (Treasurer).
Rich
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Offline Doug Pilcher  
#55 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:15:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kevin Wilson Go to Quoted Post
If the BOD is on board with a rotating East, Central, West NATS, I would like to see a somewhat more proactive approach than sitting back and waiting on members to come up with a plan. If the BOD is not on board, I would like to see comments as to why or why not directly from them. I would also like an answer to the specific costs involved with holding NATS at Muncie (4th ask?). If for some reason this does not need to be public, feel free to PM me or email me. kwilson@deximaging.com

Thank you,
Kevin



Originally Posted by: Chuck Edwards Go to Quoted Post
Kevin,

Not trying to be negative here, but this is a typical answer that the BOD seems to give out a lot... You bring an idea to them and they want volunteers to do the footwork, a prime example is the electronic scoring idea that was presented last year. Now to the point.. If you look back at the past approved budgets you can see how much is allocated for the Nats. I am not sure as to where to find this information on the website.


Originally Posted by: Kevin Wilson Go to Quoted Post
I could be wrong, but I dont think that will show a breakdown, ie
Field rental
banquet cost
camping fees
tent fees
entrance fees




Kevin and Chuck,

Ok, a lot to address here.

1st. The BOD is absolutely not Opposed to a move of the NATS. Period. The BOD would only like a viable plan by members as to a majority of members as to where, and when and how. Again, in fairness to AMA in a time frame that allows them to plan around us NOT being in Muncie. The proactive approach is exactly that, (speaking for myself) is to make this known and members aware that their input, and YES, their initiative to make this happen. I also stated I would be available (as I am sure the others on the BOD involved in NATS past would also do) to help facilitate the needs and what is required under it's current format of the NATS. Which does include Dave, (again) a split of the weeks points. Or weighting of the week, which from last poll of members came back to a 80/20 weighting. 80% for first 3 days, and 20% of last day. Previously we tried a 4 day standard contest in 2018 and from 2017 previously it was at a 50/50.

I personally do not see this as the BOD sitting back at all, but asking members to volunteer some of their time as the BOD does nearly 365 days of the year. We are a "CLUB" and is it wrong for all members of said "CLUB" to offer up some of their time and experience and connections to make something new happen. Why would this (being the NATS, not including our International RD here) be the sole job of 10 members who happen to sit on the BOD giving of their time in many many many aspects of other Club business as well?

2nd. As to cost, it is a changing factor as depends on pilot count, Event Team, banquet, awards outside of the Wood AMA provides etc.. We have what we budget for NATS, and what is spent on NATS and what is income from NATS being the entry fees given back from AMA to IMAC. And like IJS is not a money making endeavor but and important expenditure as seen by this and previous BOD's.
All listed in the End of year expenditures on website "Information/Club Business

2017 - http://www.mini-iac.org/...-End-Financial-Statement

2018 - http://www.mini-iac.org/...-END-OPERATING-STATEMENT

2019 NATS is not calculated as of yet.


Costs breakdown that I am aware of.

Field Rental at AMA = $0.00

Banquet Cost = (In my 3 Nats) (Approximate) 2017 and for several years before I believe near from $800 to $1000.00,

2018 I believe was about $500.00 (Better Food and Price as my wife and Rhonda and Samantha did some research and wanted to change from the standard BBQ dinner) and in 2019 we used same company, different menu under $500 I believe.

Camping fees which is paid by campers, Roughly $20.00 and change a night.

Tent Fees for event large tents and to also include Judges tents and chairs and tables and iced waters brought in as needed = $0.00.

Competitors can rent large tents for themselves and usually share costs at $100.00 for week, Roughly.

You did not ask, but golf carts and fuel for Event Team provided by AMA and IMO a must = $0.00

You did not ask, but Sound System for meetings and Freestyle = $0.00

You did not ask but Board Room with overhead projector facilities for pilots meeting and Judging Refresher = $0.00

You did not ask but Banquet Room for dinner (Double check with Phil) but I also believe $0.00

You did not ask, but Printing costs of Knowns for Judges, 5 Sets of Unknowns for competitors and Judges and Callers copies and Score Sheets and Pilot Pins etc. (Judges copies all laminated) = 0.00 (Last 3 years I have run NATS I have paid for this personally).

Entrance Fees? If you mean cost of entering Contest, = $125.00 which is where AMA keeps a portion and a portion is returned to IMAC.

And again I ask, should all of this be the sole responsibility of the BOD? Should not all members of this organization be also volunteering their time as able, to facilitate new ideas and make them happen? If this is not the case, then I see a huge problem ahead in getting 11 members to sign up for a 2 year term as Board of Directors going forward. As most of us, not only are members of the BOD but serve on 1 or 2 other committees as well. So also again, is it wrong for the BOD to ask for help from members when new ideas are brought forward?

We also have families, and Jobs and once in a while would like to have time to practice and fly in a competition or 2.

Let me know what questions I have missed please.
Doug Pilcher
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Krzy4rc on 7/16/2019(UTC)
Offline Dave Villwock  
#56 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:20:54 AM(UTC)
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I guess my thoughts are. If you get more than 50 pilots registered. Then, start to worry about tents, Banquet rooms and the like.

For now we just need a location without over fly problems and good parking space.
Offline Kevin Wilson  
#57 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:34:36 AM(UTC)
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I certainly did not mean to elicit such a defensive response, but thank you. It gives an idea of all that is involved in hosting a NATS vs. a standard local contest and also what is provided by AMA. In a NATS outside of Muncie, would the administrative portion still be handled by AMA? Would a portion of the entry fee still go to AMA? How much is that usually?

In years past, has the CD of NATS been a BOD member? Or is this just recent? I thought running the NATS was a responsibility of the BOD which is why I was requesting more input from you guys. I appreciate your response. And yes, more member participation would be nice, but I am sure we are all well aware of the 80/20 rule.
Offline Doug Pilcher  
#58 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 10:00:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kevin Wilson Go to Quoted Post
I certainly did not mean to elicit such a defensive response, but thank you. It gives an idea of all that is involved in hosting a NATS vs. a standard local contest and also what is provided by AMA. In a NATS outside of Muncie, would the administrative portion still be handled by AMA? Would a portion of the entry fee still go to AMA? How much is that usually?

In years past, has the CD of NATS been a BOD member? Or is this just recent? I thought running the NATS was a responsibility of the BOD which is why I was requesting more input from you guys. I appreciate your response. And yes, more member participation would be nice, but I am sure we are all well aware of the 80/20 rule.


It was not intended as a defensive response at all Kevin and sorry if came off that way. Though again, how things are written/interpreted is a totally different thing on forums for sure. Trying to do company work and still respond here in as timely a manner as possible.

As to administrative portion handled by AMA, I believe (believe) if still run thru AMA even offsite and they provide the signups and Wood trophies, then I think that would remain the same split. But, I also think, the Wood trophies could be acquired elsewhere and registration done thru IMAC and proceeds remain with and added to the NATS budget. Just a thought outside the box.

As to if NATS has been run by a BOD member, I know I have run last 3, Mike Karnes I believe 4 or 5 before that. Further back then that, I am not sure of at all. But no where is it stated it must be a BOD member. It may fall under that, "no one else has offered", so again, NATS being very important to the BOD and previous BOD's and members alike it very well may have been. But again, not written or laid out as such.

The 50/50 and 4 day contest and the 80/20 change back this year is not understood by all, so wanted to make that crystal clear is all. It was changed by member polls over last 3 years from the 50/50 to 4 day to now the 80/20.

Doug Pilcher
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Offline Kevin Wilson  
#59 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 11:20:59 AM(UTC)
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I was referring to the other 80/20 rule. 20% of members do 80% of the work.
Offline Doug Pilcher  
#60 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 11:30:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kevin Wilson Go to Quoted Post
I was referring to the other 80/20 rule. 20% of members do 80% of the work.


Ahhhh, That I understand!

👌👍
Doug Pilcher
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