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Offline Chuck Edwards  
#61 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 1:00:28 PM(UTC)
Chuck Edwards

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Doug,

Thanks for the breakdown of some of the hidden items that some do not see that AMA provides. Mr. Kevin Garland could probably give some good insight to expenses for running a large event since he has ran the Shootout for the last couple of years.
Charles Edwards
TEAM FUTABA
Professional UAS pilot.
I’m just here for the party!
Offline Kevin Wilson  
#62 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 3:25:30 PM(UTC)
Kevin Wilson

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Originally Posted by: Doug Pilcher Go to Quoted Post

As to administrative portion handled by AMA, I believe (believe) if still run thru AMA even offsite and they provide the signups and Wood trophies, then I think that would remain the same split. But, I also think, the Wood trophies could be acquired elsewhere and registration done thru IMAC and proceeds remain with and added to the NATS budget. Just a thought outside the box.

After thinking about it, this is still the AMA scale aerobatic NATS so I am sure they will be involved in the administrative process to some degree or another. They would most likely still handle registration and trophies and that makes sense. I was not in any way trying to cut them out, just curious for budgeting purposes. Does AMA set the entry fee? or is that up to the CD?

On another note, I thought his name looked familiarCool
https://thunderboats.nin.../the-dave-villwock-story


Offline Chuck Edwards  
#63 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 3:57:45 PM(UTC)
Chuck Edwards

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He’s kind of a big deal! At least I think so!
Charles Edwards
TEAM FUTABA
Professional UAS pilot.
I’m just here for the party!
Offline Howard Pilcher  
#64 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 4:21:13 PM(UTC)
Howard Pilcher

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Originally Posted by: Mike Karnes Go to Quoted Post
Who are the 3 Event Directors going to be and what venues have you secured? You have 45 days to come up with a plan and to approach the BOD


Hi Mike, why the time crunch? The next National is at least a year away.
RIP Dalton Extra 300SP W/DLE 222 & JR 8931 servos - Spektrum DX 18 Radio
Offline Doug Pilcher  
#65 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 4:37:59 PM(UTC)
Doug Pilcher

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Originally Posted by: Howard Pilcher Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mike, why the time crunch? The next National is at least a year away.


Hello Howard,

The crunch is that AMA starts their following years schedule in September for NATS dates. IF WE want to move away, and again, just fine with a plan, it is only fair that AMA can account for that in their scheduling of the sites. To let them schedule us in, and then a few month later we pull out is not fair to them.

Simply being diplomatic with AMA is all.

Doug Pilcher
Vice President
douglas.pilcher@gmail.com
Contact - 903-647-2640
#IAmIMAC
thanks 2 users thanked Doug Pilcher for this useful post.
Charles Lewis on 7/16/2019(UTC), Toby W. Silhavy on 7/16/2019(UTC)
Offline Howard Pilcher  
#66 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 6:45:49 PM(UTC)
Howard Pilcher

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Thanks Doug for posting so quickly, good to know.
RIP Dalton Extra 300SP W/DLE 222 & JR 8931 servos - Spektrum DX 18 Radio
Offline Mike Karnes  
#67 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:38:08 PM(UTC)
Mike Karnes

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Post #1

Originally Posted by: Doug Pilcher Go to Quoted Post
Ok, back in our 2019 NATS Signup forum we have had a post recently by Chuck Edwards and it should indeed be moved as he suggested as we archive the NATS threads as the next NATS planning begins. So we will "sticky it" here as I agree with him 100%. This is NOT a new discussion. Many members, including myself have discussed this for a few years and at length. Two guys individually and myself had some email discussions. Wayne Mathews and Clark Hymas and I as well as a some long time NATS attendees. (Hope they do not mind me mentioning them by name). We had ideas of a rotating NATS, Eastern, Central and Western Venue. Not a new idea but some of the other things besides the geographical placement that have to be factored in before this works. I had an idea (and still do but with issues to say the least) of a concurrent East / Central / West NATS. Many obvious obstacles there but an idea just the same.

There were also a couple lengthy discussions again in Arizona at IJS with a few groups about just this.
Rumor dispelled there. Myself and Mike were approached at IJS directly, and with great frustration, by a member. He had been told that "The BOD will not ALLOW NATS to be moved". THIS COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH, nor has that comment ever been made by myself or Mike or any of the other BOD members I have worked with since 2014 to my knowledge.

1) "The BOD does not insist this event remain on AMA grounds". This is an AMA event however.

2) The event has remained there for lack of any plan or volunteers that have brought forth to change the venue.

3) AMA begins their NATS planning around September of each year for the following years calendar. Thus for a move to take place, and to be fair to AMA, we must have a solid plan in place and to the BOD by no later than August of current year. So, for 2019 NATS, as we had nothing presented by August of 2018, then the event was planned and scheduled again for Muncie.

4) IF and WITH a solid plan (if moving NATS is the majority consensus) then for 2020, a solid plan would be needed by August of 2019 for the 2020 NATS. If that plan is approved by the BOD, there are NATS funds allocated to the event from the yearly budget to help offset costs of the event.

5) I and others on the BOD and some members I have discussed with individually believe the (on or around) July 4th holiday hurts us with possible lack of attendance that have family obligations for that time frame. AGREED!

6) So for this to happen successfully then a "TEAM" needs to be put together to begin a planning process and procurement of a venue and needed amenities.

As I am currently loading my RV and headed to Muncie today in fact and out of time to continue for now, I will stop here. Below I have copied Chuck E's comment below. But a "Pin Holder" of his point and many's input over the years that I have been directly involved with NATS.

By Chuck Edwards

"The question remains. What needs to happen and or change to spark life back into this event?

Doug,
Feel free to start a new discussion thread for this if that would be better suited. This is not me being negative, but as a group we need to figure this out before next year or there won't be another NATS for IMAC."





Mike Karnes
President
karnes1025@gmail.com
317-716=6220

Offline Steve Stanton  
#68 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 12:04:52 PM(UTC)
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I don't mean to side track the intent of this thread but I think it's important for us to understand the scope of the work
involved in moving the Nat's to some location other than Muncie.
The input or involvement regarding changes to the Nat's has been very limited on this thread.
I believe it would be irresponsible for the BOD to take the reins and launch a full court effort into moving the Nat's based on the limited input or participation on the subject evidenced on this thread.
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the input from those who have participated in the discussion. I just don't think it
would be appropriate to expect the BOD to jump on this and start running.
Considering the enormous advantages offered by holding this event at Muncie, I can't imagine how moving this event could be accomplished this year.
For me, I would like to see a much greater effort put into poling the membership for a lot more input before making a decision to move the Nat's.
Offline Chuck Edwards  
#69 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 12:13:41 PM(UTC)
Chuck Edwards

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I have to agree with Steve here.
I will continue to beat a dead horse here. The next traveling Nats for the Pattern guys will be 2021 if they continue, the turnout in Blythville this year is between 50-60. I will again suggest that our leadership reach out to Archie Stafford (NSRCA President) to research the possibility of having Pattern and IMAC share a location. This would take a site that can accommodate at least 4 flight lines running at the same time. I would like to at least see some conversation about this, or at least why this is not an option.
Charles Edwards
TEAM FUTABA
Professional UAS pilot.
I’m just here for the party!
Offline tl3  
#70 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 12:37:21 PM(UTC)
tl3

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Originally Posted by: Chuck Edwards Go to Quoted Post
I would like to at least see some conversation about this, or at least why this is not an option.

Well, for starters: "...a site that can accommodate at least 4 flight lines running at the same time."
Even AMA wouldn't be able to support that without likely forcing IMAC to fly the alternate sequences or confining pattern to a single site. I've got nothing against pattern, I have an Essence and fly some myself and I'd love to see more cross over, but the logistics of putting together and running a combined event seem a gargantuan challenge for what would likely be little benefit.
t
Offline Chuck Edwards  
#71 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 12:45:18 PM(UTC)
Chuck Edwards

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Ty,

It would absolutely take a large site to do something like this, Maybe Triple Tree for the east coast. I do not see an issue flying the Alt sequence, that's what it's there for. The benefits would be splitting the cost, splitting the manpower, and making worth while to shut down a possible club field. There are several places out on the dry lake beds that people fly at on the west coast, or closed down airstrips where they hold large jet events.
Charles Edwards
TEAM FUTABA
Professional UAS pilot.
I’m just here for the party!
thanks 1 user thanked Chuck Edwards for this useful post.
Ron Graham on 7/17/2019(UTC)
Offline Dave Villwock  
#72 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:25:42 PM(UTC)
Dave Villwock

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Originally Posted by: Steve Stanton Go to Quoted Post
I don't mean to side track the intent of this thread but I think it's important for us to understand the scope of the work
involved in moving the Nat's to some location other than Muncie.
The input or involvement regarding changes to the Nat's has been very limited on this thread.
I believe it would be irresponsible for the BOD to take the reins and launch a full court effort into moving the Nat's based on the limited input or participation on the subject evidenced on this thread.
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the input from those who have participated in the discussion. I just don't think it
would be appropriate to expect the BOD to jump on this and start running.
Considering the enormous advantages offered by holding this event at Muncie, I can't imagine how moving this event could be accomplished this year.
For me, I would like to see a much greater effort put into poling the membership for a lot more input before making a decision to move the Nat's.


Offline Dave Villwock  
#73 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:43:36 PM(UTC)
Dave Villwock

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One of the problems is that not very many people who have the vacation time it takes to go to Muncie every year nor would their wife,family, or significant other. It takes two weeks to go complete and come home to the NW, SW, NE, and Canada.
That is why the roaming three site plan makes sense. Running a 50 pilots or less is a very easy thing to do anywhere.

I hope the BOD moves that direction. I hope they consider a location that can draw more than 50 pilots ( mid coast N and S ) and I hope that location could be salable to ones significant other like lets say Vegas Or Reno. I don't know about the east coast maybe Atlanta. I hope they reinvent the format and procedures of running a contest of this type in order to make it more unique and prestigious .

Putting a contest of this size should be no problem as we ran contests of around 35 to 40 pilots not long ago on a regular basis.

The BOD and the membership just has to decide to make a change if they want NATs participation in numbers that make it worth doing.
Offline Dave Villwock  
#74 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:48:23 PM(UTC)
Dave Villwock

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On the issue of running a cooperative event with the Nsrca. Not now, walk before you run.
Nothing against the pattern guys but why make this more complicated than it has to be for now.
Offline Chuck Edwards  
#75 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2019 9:10:24 PM(UTC)
Chuck Edwards

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Perhaps you are right Dave. At least reach out to the CD's that have ran the last two traveling Nats for Pattern. Those gentleman can give you some solid feedback on what it takes to have a successful event.
Charles Edwards
TEAM FUTABA
Professional UAS pilot.
I’m just here for the party!
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