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Offline dth7  
#61 Posted : Monday, July 1, 2019 8:51:14 PM(UTC)
dth7

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Originally Posted by: Gil R. Major Go to Quoted Post
We need to remember there are AMA requirements for participants in and AMA event, which is what any IMAC contes is!


This is why they have to “sign in”. There really is no “pre registration” for Novice as of yet.

Attention CDs and EMs. This is a good time to introduce the new AMA Contest and Event Package (recently changed and going through tweaks as it is used this season) which includes improved instructions, a bullet point review of requirements (more readable for pilots to read quickly while signing in) and sheets for general sign in, turbine and LMA (when applicable).

This is the link you will receive with your sanction approvals. Please become familiar with the new package and read the instructions. This is a positive improvement in an effort to assure compliance with the safety programming.
https://www.modelaircraf...dEventPackage_Form10.pdf

Thanks,
Daren
Reaching out to Outreach!
“Fly good, don’t suck!”

#IAmIMAC
thanks 1 user thanked dth7 for this useful post.
Rob Willis on 7/1/2019(UTC)
Offline Kent Porter  
#62 Posted : Monday, July 1, 2019 9:51:31 PM(UTC)
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Basic was the novice class and then was made competitive...just saying...I'm in!
Offline kjetilmh  
#63 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2019 6:49:16 AM(UTC)
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In Norway we usually have the friday before the contest as a training day. We fly together in order to get better. We give each other feedback on how we fly an what to improve. This is important since most local clubs do not have multiple imac pilots.

We fly with each other, not against.

thanks 5 users thanked kjetilmh for this useful post.
Steven_R on 7/2/2019(UTC), Earle Andrews on 7/2/2019(UTC), Doug Pilcher on 7/2/2019(UTC), steve pennypacker on 7/8/2019(UTC), dth7 on 7/12/2019(UTC)
Offline Earle Andrews  
#64 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2019 12:52:44 PM(UTC)
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All of the contests I've been to in the past 10 years do this. Friday is open practice/critique/mentoring, etc.

And yes....we fly with each other and against the criteria of perfection. One of the reasons I don't care for normalized scores, which pit competitor against competitor. But that's for another discussion, not this one.
thanks 1 user thanked Earle Andrews for this useful post.
Doug Pilcher on 7/2/2019(UTC)
Offline steve pennypacker  
#65 Posted : Monday, July 8, 2019 10:52:58 PM(UTC)
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To those of you who have had success attracting newcomrs to Novice: what have you done that others can learn from to spread your success?

I think both Novice and letting someone show up and fly non-competitively at the tail end of Basic are great ideas. That said, they only go so far in terms of addressing the big-airplane intimidation factor. I do have a suggestion for that that doesn't require a rules change, but that's too far off topic.

Constructive feedback: People need to be aware of what Novice is if they're going to try it. I just tried to find the Novice rules on the IMAC web site, unsuccessfully. Not a mention of it on the home page or the How To Begin page. So I'll venture to say that newcomers curious about or interested in IMAC will leave the site still unaware of Novice. It seems these pages are where Novice should be introduced - along with a "someone please contact me" form that captures their name & contact info and forwards it to the appropriate RD/ARDs for follow up - this could easily be delegated to local IMAC pilots. IMAC captures their info from the form and can continue the conversation from there, any time we want. Even if the timing isn't right for the newcomer yet, maybe it will be when IMAC emails them again a year or three down the road.

I swore I would never respond to a “Chuck" post or thread. Oh well. Chuck, it isn't just leadership who find both your messages and delivery to do more harm than good. They're just the ones who speak up. I'm a newbie and I will say I almost stayed away from IMAC before I realized that so much of the negativity I was seeing originated from just one person. I joined IMAC for the same reason most people are attracted to their hobbies: for enjoyment and hopefully to give back. You reduce my enjoyment (Futaba, are you listening?), so I do my best to tune you out. You seem to have some good ideas but they're so shrouded in contempt for the people who stick their necks out, roll up their sleeves and make things happen that they get lost in the noise. Leave your spite at the door and you might influence me. Otherwise don’t let the door hit you…
thanks 6 users thanked steve pennypacker for this useful post.
Earle Andrews on 7/8/2019(UTC), Tim Hughes on 7/9/2019(UTC), Matt Komar on 7/9/2019(UTC), Dave Dupre on 7/9/2019(UTC), Chuck Edwards on 7/10/2019(UTC), dth7 on 7/11/2019(UTC)
Offline Dave Dupre  
#66 Posted : Tuesday, July 9, 2019 12:56:42 PM(UTC)
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I happy to say that I'm here because of Daren and Granite State 2018. Granted, this was before novice class, but it was Daren that I spoke to prior to committing to the contest. It was Daren that set me up with my first stick plane and got me connected to some great flyers that I learned so much from. I remember that Daren gave up competing in the contest to be sure the rest of us enjoyed a great contest.

Fast forward a year, and I now have a new plane, a new trailer, and a truck to haul it all. I'm all in! Most importantly, I have a ton of new flying buddies, and I think I'm a far better flyer for it.

Prior to Granite State 2018, I had a similar view of IMAC as Steve did. As a former classic pattern flyer from back in the 80s, the first thing I thought about was pattern and IMAC when I got back to the hobby. However, I kept reading and hearing about negative experiences with IMAC, and I am so not a fan of where pattern planes have gone. It was three years before I finally reached out to Daren, and I'm glad I did.

Now, it's on all of us to try and get more people to get past the first step. I know I tell everyone that will listen.

Hope to see many of you in Maine this weekend!

Dave
thanks 7 users thanked Dave Dupre for this useful post.
Matt Komar on 7/9/2019(UTC), Earle Andrews on 7/9/2019(UTC), steve pennypacker on 7/9/2019(UTC), Tim Hughes on 7/9/2019(UTC), Rob Willis on 7/9/2019(UTC), dth7 on 7/11/2019(UTC), Chuck Edwards on 7/12/2019(UTC)
Offline Chuck Edwards  
#67 Posted : Wednesday, July 10, 2019 12:15:12 PM(UTC)
Chuck Edwards

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Originally Posted by: steve pennypacker Go to Quoted Post
To those of you who have had success attracting newcomrs to Novice: what have you done that others can learn from to spread your success?

I think both Novice and letting someone show up and fly non-competitively at the tail end of Basic are great ideas. That said, they only go so far in terms of addressing the big-airplane intimidation factor. I do have a suggestion for that that doesn't require a rules change, but that's too far off topic.

Constructive feedback: People need to be aware of what Novice is if they're going to try it. I just tried to find the Novice rules on the IMAC web site, unsuccessfully. Not a mention of it on the home page or the How To Begin page. So I'll venture to say that newcomers curious about or interested in IMAC will leave the site still unaware of Novice. It seems these pages are where Novice should be introduced - along with a "someone please contact me" form that captures their name & contact info and forwards it to the appropriate RD/ARDs for follow up - this could easily be delegated to local IMAC pilots. IMAC captures their info from the form and can continue the conversation from there, any time we want. Even if the timing isn't right for the newcomer yet, maybe it will be when IMAC emails them again a year or three down the road.

I swore I would never respond to a “Chuck" post or thread. Oh well. Chuck, it isn't just leadership who find both your messages and delivery to do more harm than good. They're just the ones who speak up. I'm a newbie and I will say I almost stayed away from IMAC before I realized that so much of the negativity I was seeing originated from just one person. I joined IMAC for the same reason most people are attracted to their hobbies: for enjoyment and hopefully to give back. You reduce my enjoyment (Futaba, are you listening?), so I do my best to tune you out. You seem to have some good ideas but they're so shrouded in contempt for the people who stick their necks out, roll up their sleeves and make things happen that they get lost in the noise. Leave your spite at the door and you might influence me. Otherwise don’t let the door hit you…


Steve,

I am glad you made the decision to join IMAC despite your personal feelings towards m posts on this site or others. As far as me being negative concerning IMAC, nothing could be further from the truth. I love IMAC as an organization and want nothing more than to see it return to its former self. The contempt that I have is not directed at IMAC as an organization, but squarely at some of those running it. In my opinion there is a huge difference between the two, you may disagree if you like. Part of the real issue is how things come across in these forums. When you are simply reading these posts but do not know the person behind them it is difficult to understand where they are coming from. I think the majority of the people on here that have actually met me and been around me at contests will say that I am generally a pretty good guy, who is always willing to help others in any way that I can. Unfortunately this does not come through in text where you lose the emotion behind the words. There are plenty of others that feel the same way about the leadership but will not speak their mind, some of them are the very people that have so nicely asked me to just leave IMAC.... It’s funny how people will sit across the table from you at an event and say one thing, and then backpedal when they see the fallout... Enough of all of that though! I wish you the best of luck in IMAC, There are plenty of wonderful people in this organization, if you stick around long enough you will see what I see about the others.

Charles Edwards
TEAM FUTABA
Professional UAS pilot.
#IMKINDOFIMAC
Offline dth7  
#68 Posted : Thursday, July 11, 2019 1:36:23 AM(UTC)
dth7

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Originally Posted by: steve pennypacker Go to Quoted Post
To those of you who have had success attracting newcomrs to Novice: what have you done that others can learn from to spread your success?

I think both Novice and letting someone show up and fly non-competitively at the tail end of Basic are great ideas. That said, they only go so far in terms of addressing the big-airplane intimidation factor. I do have a suggestion for that that doesn't require a rules change, but that's too far off topic.

Constructive feedback: People need to be aware of what Novice is if they're going to try it. I just tried to find the Novice rules on the IMAC web site, unsuccessfully. Not a mention of it on the home page or the How To Begin page. So I'll venture to say that newcomers curious about or interested in IMAC will leave the site still unaware of Novice. It seems these pages are where Novice should be introduced - along with a "someone please contact me" form that captures their name & contact info and forwards it to the appropriate RD/ARDs for follow up - this could easily be delegated to local IMAC pilots. IMAC captures their info from the form and can continue the conversation from there, any time we want. Even if the timing isn't right for the newcomer yet, maybe it will be when IMAC emails them again a year or three down the road.


Steve, thanks for the feedback. Yes, it is sometimes hard to find info on the site. We have addressed it and discussed the Home page links. Remember that “Novice class” is new this season and in a “testing/ Evaluation” phase. Evidently changing format on the site is more complicated than it should be, again, in discussions.
The Novice information, as with many of the “Downloadable” resources is at Downloads/ IMAC Forms. Not super intuitive, I know. Note, I’m not the webmaster even though I’ve stayed at a Holiday Inn Select!
http://www.mini-iac.org/Downloads

The “elevator talk” about Novice Class. It’s a one day “inside the ropes” IMAC experience for free at some events or a small donation. It’s judged but not scored for regional points. Novice pilots are introduced to “mentors” (volunteer competitors) and fly with Basic class. They are welcome to come early (practice day) and stay the entire contest to shadow all aspects of a contest. They will only fly on Saturday.

Going forward, if approved and adopted as a promotional tool. IMHO it should be. We would hope to see it linked on the Home Page in “Getting Started”. Your link to an email to ARD/ RDs with a follow up plan is excellent.

Thanks again.
Daren
Reaching out to Outreach!
“Fly good, don’t suck!”

#IAmIMAC
Offline dth7  
#69 Posted : Thursday, July 11, 2019 1:43:51 AM(UTC)
dth7

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Originally Posted by: gobigdave Go to Quoted Post
I happy to say that I'm here because of Daren and Granite State 2018. Granted, this was before novice class, but it was Daren that I spoke to prior to committing to the contest. It was Daren that set me up with my first stick plane and got me connected to some great flyers that I learned so much from. I remember that Daren gave up competing in the contest to be sure the rest of us enjoyed a great contest.

Fast forward a year, and I now have a new plane, a new trailer, and a truck to haul it all. I'm all in! Most importantly, I have a ton of new flying buddies, and I think I'm a far better flyer for it.

Prior to Granite State 2018, I had a similar view of IMAC as Steve did. As a former classic pattern flyer from back in the 80s, the first thing I thought about was pattern and IMAC when I got back to the hobby. However, I kept reading and hearing about negative experiences with IMAC, and I am so not a fan of where pattern planes have gone. It was three years before I finally reached out to Daren, and I'm glad I did.

Now, it's on all of us to try and get more people to get past the first step. I know I tell everyone that will listen.

Hope to see many of you in Maine this weekend!

Dave


Dave, thank you but my name was mentioned too many times in that post! It takes a village and a community to do any of this. I’m very pleased to see you and others stepping up to help. I’m a firm believer that contests should be run by the entire group and not dedicated to “so and so’s contest”. With more RDs, ARDs and Pilots becoming CDs, a greater pool of eligible people to run contests exists. With new Online educational resources for Judging School and “Score” we should have more eligible judges and score keepers, the “cogs” that make the contest succeed.

I’m happy to see you succeeding in IMAC. I think you’re so complimentary because I’ve been spending so much time running and not flying I haven’t moved up to come “get you”! Lol. Watch out because new faces will be taking over the 2 contests I’ve been CDing!

See you at Plum Island.
Daren
Reaching out to Outreach!
“Fly good, don’t suck!”

#IAmIMAC
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Earle Andrews on 8/12/2019(UTC)
Offline Steve Sides  
#70 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2019 9:35:01 AM(UTC)
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Way back when I agreed to post my efforts at attracting Novice class pilots (and anyone else too) and now that the contest is in the books here's what I did and the results.

I started about 6 weeks before the contest and emailed both a Novice flyer and a regular contest flyer to every club within 100 miles of the contest site. I asked the club contact person to please make the flyers available to their membership to see if there was any interest. Result: I got 3 replies from clubs that they would do so, I don't know about the remaining clubs. I was contacted by 1 person saying that he would attend to fly the Novice class. Didn't show.

About a month before contest time I emailed every IMAC member in NC and the surrounding States reminding them of the contest and that I hoped they could attend. A few return emails and some conversations. Result - nobody committed to attend.

At the Jacksonville contest, I asked for participants to make the trip to Randleman for the contest. No takers.

At Youth Masters, I talked of the contest and got enthusiastic responses and commitments from a couple would-be First Time Basic pilots. Results : Didn't show.

The folks that did attend, I asked them in advance if they would be willing to help / mentor a Novice class / First-Time Basic pilot and the answer to a person was an enthusiastic yes.

Bottom Line: My efforts yielded no Novice pilots, No First Time Basic Pilots, No regular Basic pilots, No Unlimited Pilots and 7 pilots among the remaining 3 classes - including myself. We were able to pull it off through the help of a local qualified judge that although couldn't fly gave up a good chunk of his day to sit in the judges chair.

A bright spot, We had a local person bring a plane out that he and his sons had built and ask for help in test flying and trimming after contest flying was done for the day. That person and his 2 sons got about 90 minutes of help including buddy box flights until they ran out of batteries. They left the field enthusiastically positive.

I'd like to hear of others more successful efforts that I might emulate in future contests.

Edited by user Sunday, August 11, 2019 9:45:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Sequence Committee, Education Committee, Judging Instructor
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Offline dth7  
#71 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2019 10:26:20 AM(UTC)
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Steve,

This post is exactly the point of this thread. Although your wonderful efforts did not result in pilots at the contest it did spread more positive word of IMAC. You did communicate and reach out to many modelers and AMA members. As with all volunteer efforts, a very small percentage actually “do” anything. It really requires perseverance and salesmanship unfortunately.

Other great positives I take from your post is that ALL pilots you approached agreed “to a person was an enthusiastic yes!” And that you helped a father and 2 sons, that sends a good message through the modeling community. I hope you urged him/ them to share this story. I hope you shared this good story on social media so it gets back to the other clubs and members that IMAC pilots are interested in not only competition and their own planes and contests but are motivated to help all modelers and share their knowledge and skills with host clubs and others.

This is year one with this new (renewed) initiative. I am confident it will gain word of mouth and momentum as more non IMAC member modelers hear about it.
I have had small numbers but all the pilots that “shadow”, help out and engage in the Novice program leave with a better understanding of IMAC to share with modelers who do not understand and may spread negative rumors and poor information. IOWs it’s all been positive “friend raising” for IMAC and that’s crucial.

Thank you for your good work on behalf of IMAC and your report. It may seem less than successful at the moment but I feel you did more good than you may think with all your efforts.

Daren
Reaching out to Outreach!
“Fly good, don’t suck!”

#IAmIMAC
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Toby W. Silhavy on 8/11/2019(UTC), Earle Andrews on 8/12/2019(UTC)
Offline Steve Sides  
#72 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2019 4:58:03 PM(UTC)
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Hello Daren,
I agree that it will take perseverance to see results from any positive efforts and I remain positive. It's another matter to keep the host clubs positive when they see paltry results in return for giving up their field for a weekend. So far my club is also positive and I haven't heard any negatives thus far but... Add to that the impression that such poor attendance sends to new folks that do show up. On the guy that got help with his plane, I was only involved in talking with him and understanding what he needed. He was into electrics which isn't a strong forte of mine so I hooked him up with one of the contestants that has forgotten more about electrics than I know. The contestant was the guy that helped them out. A good thing.
We must stay positive and reach out as you've suggested. It's the classic 'chicken and egg' thing. In order to attract new contestants, we need contests but without adequate contestants the contests will go away.

Edited by user Sunday, August 11, 2019 5:22:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Sequence Committee, Education Committee, Judging Instructor
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Toby W. Silhavy on 8/11/2019(UTC), Earle Andrews on 8/12/2019(UTC)
Offline dth7  
#73 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 2:34:37 AM(UTC)
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I don’t disagree. However, this is season one for a new initiative. Recognizing any shortfalls is an important part of the process. Reporting experiences will help us tweak our marketing efforts.

The host clubs are part of the solution. If they express disappointment in low participation a response may be to respectfully suggest that members come out and check it out and learn something new. Clubs should not be thinking they are “giving their fields up” or “IMAC is renting our field”. What we need to stress is that we are “sharing” the field with the clubs and sharing our knowledge, experience and skills with members to help them learn more about their model flying. Members should
be invited to come out on Fri practice days to fly with IMAC pilots. It will start slow (as it has) but if members start benefiting from the presence of IMAC pilots at their fields they will see the value in hosting contests. Think of smaller contests as better opportunities to offer help to members who come out.

Call me an optimist! We’ll get there. If necessary, one at a time.

Keep at it.
Daren
#IAmIMaC
Reaching out to Outreach!
“Fly good, don’t suck!”

#IAmIMAC
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Earle Andrews on 8/12/2019(UTC)
Offline Steve Sides  
#74 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 9:34:41 AM(UTC)
Steve Sides

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Originally Posted by: dth7 Go to Quoted Post
I don’t disagree. However, this is season one for a new initiative. Recognizing any shortfalls is an important part of the process. Reporting experiences will help us tweak our marketing efforts.

The host clubs are part of the solution. If they express disappointment in low participation a response may be to respectfully suggest that members come out and check it out and learn something new. Clubs should not be thinking they are “giving their fields up” or “IMAC is renting our field”. What we need to stress is that we are “sharing” the field with the clubs and sharing our knowledge, experience and skills with members to help them learn more about their model flying. Members should
be invited to come out on Fri practice days to fly with IMAC pilots. It will start slow (as it has) but if members start benefiting from the presence of IMAC pilots at their fields they will see the value in hosting contests. Think of smaller contests as better opportunities to offer help to members who come out.

Call me an optimist! We’ll get there. If necessary, one at a time.

Keep at it.
Daren
#IAmIMaC


Talk about a ray of sunshine lol ! Next time I need a boost I'll be writing you ! Always a pleasure to see positive forward looking posts. If we had more of this I might think about returning to social media. Wait !!! What am I thinking ?? Hope to see you around the contest circuit.

Sequence Committee, Education Committee, Judging Instructor
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dth7 on 8/12/2019(UTC)
Offline dth7  
#75 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 4:30:40 PM(UTC)
dth7

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What do we say. In the end, if there is a decision to be made, try to give the benefit to the pilot!

Haha! I’m not without my moments, trust me it’s just when an event can be pulled off without drama and having fun it so beats the alternative.
Enjoy the remainder of the 2019 season all.
Daren.
Reaching out to Outreach!
“Fly good, don’t suck!”

#IAmIMAC
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