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Offline Daren Hudson  
#1 Posted : Thursday, August 8, 2019 10:18:23 AM(UTC)
Daren Hudson

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Hello,

Rumor has it that there is a “Judging Matrix Program” out there somewhere? If so, can we include it in “downloads” please? If not, long time pilot, judge and judging instructor, Peter Nesbeda was considering creating something this winter.
We just completed a great 7th Annual Plum Island IMAC. Peter Nesbeda and I discussed the “judging hurdles” often associated with contests, especially smaller contests. It is a general consensus among some pilots that we should be expecting pilots (with exception of new Basic Pilots) to have the ability to “judge up” one class. With the advent of the new online resources and self evaluation testing the old excuse of “I couldn’t make a judging school” is no longer the case. All pilots should be motivated to be familiar with judging and be willing to spend time “in the seat”. We pride ourselves on being a competitor judged group. With greater number of pilots trained and willing, the judging duties are much more easily filled.

Basically, if you are Sportsman or above, you should expect to be available to judge, judging “one up” adds the flexibility to the judging manager and CD. Those in Basic should expect to shadow, scribe and run sheets to help learn and assist in the running of the contest.

Look for a separate thread on some observations and suggestions for new CDs interested in running successful, drama free events.

Thanks,
Daren
Reaching out to Outreach!
“Fly good, don’t suck!”

#IAmIMAC
thanks 2 users thanked Daren Hudson for this useful post.
Dave Dupre on 8/8/2019(UTC), Earle Andrews on 8/8/2019(UTC)
Offline Brad  
#2 Posted : Thursday, August 8, 2019 11:57:40 AM(UTC)
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Not a program per se, but Kjetil Hansen posted a spread sheet that can help generate the judging matrix. I've used it with moderate success, but had some difficulty at last years regional finals because we were trying to force fit certain parameters. And then there are the ever present conflicts with "but my caller is judging on the other line" or other similar problems.

You can find the spread sheet at http://www.mini-iac.org/...heduling--an-competition Look in the first post for the link to download the spread sheet.

I think we were waiting to see if there were any improvements before putting it in the downloads.

I'm certain if someone else wants to try their hand at writing an algorithm for creating a judging matrix, CDs would be very happy to try it.

Brad
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Doug Pilcher on 8/8/2019(UTC), Dave Dupre on 8/8/2019(UTC), Earle Andrews on 8/8/2019(UTC), kjetilmh on 8/25/2019(UTC)
Offline Doug Pilcher  
#3 Posted : Thursday, August 8, 2019 1:21:44 PM(UTC)
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And I am more than willing to get what membership and BOD agrees is the best we can put forth in this idea added to downloads when ready to do such. Not a problem at all. I too would like to see the best product or products we can gather and have them as "Download" resources. I have used Kjetil's and love it. Though some tweaking sometimes needed. But it is a very useful tool.

Doug Pilcher
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Contact - 903-647-2640
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thanks 3 users thanked Doug Pilcher for this useful post.
Earle Andrews on 8/8/2019(UTC), Adi Kochav on 8/10/2019(UTC), kjetilmh on 8/25/2019(UTC)
Offline Daren Hudson  
#4 Posted : Thursday, August 8, 2019 9:42:27 PM(UTC)
Daren Hudson

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Thanks guys. I’ll forward this thread to Peter and see what he can cook up. I’ll touch on this in the CD thread when I put that together.
Daren
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Offline Kevin Garland  
#5 Posted : Friday, August 9, 2019 8:34:05 PM(UTC)
Kevin  Garland

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I think the problem we ran into with the program was dealing with two lines and dealing with the experience levels of the judges. Things also change on the fly all of the time at a contest. The one thing you don't want to do is force someone in the chair. For smaller contest, I always suggest just running 1 line. This helps free up a lot more judges. You should be able to run 1 line with any contest with less than 20 people. I have ran contest with up to 22-25 people before just running one line. Use your basic / new pilots as scribes.

Things that can help you with your judging matrix is doing pre pay registration. You can count on these people that pre pay to show up to your contest and have these people judging the first rounds. This gives you some time as a CD to figure out who will judge the rest of the rounds. Offer a lower entry fee for pre-registration.

I believe the program we had could be a very useful tool with a few more tweaks...
Futaba USA
Unlimited SW Pilot / TAS CD
Kevin Garland
Offline Daren Hudson  
#6 Posted : Friday, August 9, 2019 8:42:15 PM(UTC)
Daren Hudson

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Thanks Kevin,

I wasn’t suggesting “forcing” pilots in the seat if that’s the way it read. I think a change in mentality due to much more “available” resources online could be spread among all pilots so more will be willing to judge.

I agree with the single line. I felt the real key was having someone monitoring and managing the flight line and que. We tried to have a minimum of two classes always in line with pilots launching on the 7th maneuver of the previous pilots last sequence.

Maybe Peter can give the existing program. Spreadsheet a tweak or two?

Daren
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Offline kjetilmh  
#7 Posted : Saturday, August 10, 2019 3:09:48 PM(UTC)
kjetilmh

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Originally Posted by: Kevin Garland Go to Quoted Post

I believe the program we had could be a very useful tool with a few more tweaks...


Please let me know.
If you explain the needed functionality, maybe I can fix it.
( when the flying season has ended )



Kjetil Hansen
Imac Norway
Offline Steve Sides  
#8 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 9:46:11 AM(UTC)
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I have used a couple versions - 1 authored by Charles Youngblood and the other by Gil Major. Both did a good job. I found Charles' version to be a bit more flexible. I found them to be scary accurate in terms of timing and so forth. Really only useful for larger contests where 2 lines are required. You can predict / massage times that the classes are going to need to maximize field usage and avoid judging conflicts. To be really useful for planning judges, you really have to be confident that the folks that are signed up are indeed going to be at the contest. My main use was that the Regionals where I could post in advance what classes were going to fly when and who the judges would be. Everyone know before they got there what was needed. Worked nicely.

As Kevin mentioned earlier, when decisions have to be made on the fly for whatever reason, the judge planning part becomes less effective. Class timing still works well.

For smaller contests (10 - 15) pilots that have a single line it's a 'nice to have' but doesn't really provide any assistance in terms of judging or class scheduling IMHO.
Sequence Committee, Education Committee, Judging Instructor
Offline Daren Hudson  
#9 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 4:39:52 PM(UTC)
Daren Hudson

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The guys at my last contest had mentioned Gil’s.

I’m just trying to “round out” our online resource package for members located in one spot. Online judging school and evaluation tool, online Score training videos and some kind of judging matrix assistance will all be huge game changers IMHO. Making it much easier to urge our community to get engaged (fully) in the operation of IMAC contests.

After my visit with Adi in Tel Aviv, I’m convinced that getting an electronic scoring platform would bring us to the 21st century, realizing the potential challenges of that but being ever optimistic.

Thanks for the constructive discussion guys.
Daren
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“Fly good, don’t suck!”

#IAmIMAC
Offline Gil R. Major  
#10 Posted : Saturday, August 17, 2019 8:00:42 PM(UTC)
Gil R. Major

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i am more than willing to give my Flight Line Matrix to anyone who wants it, but an above average knowledge and experience with Excel is required. It does need to be updated each year for the the current sequence time.

I have been working on something that is just automatic, but it is by no means ready for primetime.

It does nothing for the judging matrix other than allowing you to organize the matrix. There is nothing that will take into account experience or the judges available at any particular contest.

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Offline Daren Hudson  
#11 Posted : Saturday, August 17, 2019 10:54:22 PM(UTC)
Daren Hudson

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Thanks Gil.

Hopefully Peter will take a look at this thread and maybe gain some inspiration to create something as well.

I feel with the new online resources for judging tracing that we should be justified in expecting pilots to be more knowledgeable about the judging criteria and hopefully that will translate in all pilots willing and comfortable with judging “up one” class.

Perhaps that could be a campaign? “Up One”- become comfortable judging one class up by utilizing online judging school resources.
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Offline Daren Hudson  
#12 Posted : Sunday, August 18, 2019 2:23:08 AM(UTC)
Daren Hudson

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Thanks Gil.

Hopefully Peter will take a look at this thread and maybe gain some inspiration to create something as well.

I feel with the new online resources for judging tracing that we should be justified in expecting pilots to be more knowledgeable about the judging criteria and hopefully that will translate in all pilots willing and comfortable with judging “up one” class.

Perhaps that could be a campaign? “Up One”- become comfortable judging one class up by utilizing online judging school resources.
Reaching out to Outreach!
“Fly good, don’t suck!”

#IAmIMAC
Offline Gil R. Major  
#13 Posted : Sunday, August 18, 2019 9:25:42 AM(UTC)
Gil R. Major

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Who is Peter? I can send him what I have to he is not starting from scratch.
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Life is about choices and accepting responsibility for those choices!
Offline Daren Hudson  
#14 Posted : Sunday, August 18, 2019 10:42:42 PM(UTC)
Daren Hudson

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Peter Nesbeda,

Northeast long time pilot, judging school instructor, NATS judge. He mentioned wanting to try to come up with something over the winter. I told him I would post a thread here and see what was out here.

You can email it to me and I can pass it along.

Dth7@comcast.net

Thanks very much,
Daren
Reaching out to Outreach!
“Fly good, don’t suck!”

#IAmIMAC
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