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Offline Jim7216  
#1 Posted : Sunday, August 4, 2019 1:07:48 PM(UTC)
Jim7216

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Hi,
With my airplane set up with throws adequate to fly the sportsman sequence my snap rolls are not very snappy. I am thinking about setting a switch on my transmitter to increase throws for doing snaps. Which is more effective for increasing the roll rate in a snap rudder or aileron?
Thanks,
Jim
Offline kjetilmh  
#2 Posted : Sunday, August 4, 2019 3:32:20 PM(UTC)
kjetilmh

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Hi

Try more elevator.
The fast roll motion happends when one wing is stalling.

Conditional flightmodes based on stick posistion can be usefull. Then you do not need to operate the switch.
Kjetil Hansen
Imac Norway
Offline Jim Daly  
#3 Posted : Sunday, August 4, 2019 4:57:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jim7216 Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
With my airplane set up with throws adequate to fly the sportsman sequence my snap rolls are not very snappy. I am thinking about setting a switch on my transmitter to increase throws for doing snaps. Which is more effective for increasing the roll rate in a snap rudder or aileron?
Thanks,
Jim


By Not Snappy what exactly do you mean?

For a Snap Roll to be considered a true snap roll you just need to see the nose pitch from level, to either gear or canopy depending on whether negative or positive as long as the judges can define the pitch before the auto-rotation there is no criteria as to how steep or shallow the pitch has to be,
Windy You Ask? Well I have White Caps on my coffee, you be the Judge!
Offline Bobby Folsom  
#4 Posted : Sunday, August 4, 2019 8:29:05 PM(UTC)
Bobby Folsom

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Originally Posted by: Jim7216 Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
With my airplane set up with throws adequate to fly the sportsman sequence my snap rolls are not very snappy. I am thinking about setting a switch on my transmitter to increase throws for doing snaps. Which is more effective for increasing the roll rate in a snap rudder or aileron?
Thanks,
Jim


What Tx are you using?
Offline Jim7216  
#5 Posted : Sunday, August 4, 2019 9:15:02 PM(UTC)
Jim7216

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Jim,
The airplane snaps kind of slow, the roll rate is kind of slow and it bleeds off a lot of energy. It seams tough to keep on the same flight path after it snaps as when it entered the snap. I know the roll rate in a snap is not judged and as long as there is pitch departure and the roll is 360 degrees it is judged good.
Bobby, My transmitter is a Spektrum DX18
Offline Steve Sides  
#6 Posted : Monday, August 5, 2019 9:27:49 AM(UTC)
Steve Sides

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Originally Posted by: Jim7216 Go to Quoted Post
Jim,
The airplane snaps kind of slow, the roll rate is kind of slow and it bleeds off a lot of energy. It seams tough to keep on the same flight path after it snaps as when it entered the snap. I know the roll rate in a snap is not judged and as long as there is pitch departure and the roll is 360 degrees it is judged good.
Bobby, My transmitter is a Spektrum DX18


With the aircraft bleeding off lots of energy, be sure that you aren't over controlling and getting too deep into the snap. Getting too deep (primarily too much rudder) makes the aircraft lose a bunch of speed and makes recovery more difficult. If you haven't already, I'd suggest setting up your roll rate similar to what Peter Goldsmith's suggestions indicate (more or less based on your feel) and go from there. As a start you might want to reduce the rudder some.

If you watch the good upper class pilots do a snap, there is pitch departure (not much) and autorotation (not much) and the aircraft doesn't veer too far off line - even on upline snaps - making correction much easier. I'd suggest avoiding a switch selection if you can in favor of condition-based control changes. I've always had trouble getting switches switched at the right time in a busy sequence. Busy sequences won't be a problem in Sportsman but will be coming up as you progress up the class ladder.
Sequence Committee, Education Committee, Judging Instructor
Offline Bobby Folsom  
#7 Posted : Monday, August 5, 2019 5:46:19 PM(UTC)
Bobby Folsom

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Originally Posted by: Jim7216 Go to Quoted Post
Jim,
The airplane snaps kind of slow, the roll rate is kind of slow and it bleeds off a lot of energy. It seams tough to keep on the same flight path after it snaps as when it entered the snap. I know the roll rate in a snap is not judged and as long as there is pitch departure and the roll is 360 degrees it is judged good.
Bobby, My transmitter is a Spektrum DX18


Thanks but I am a Futaba flyer. Perhaps a Spectrum flyer can help you set up some flight modes using logic.
Offline Jason T.  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, August 6, 2019 10:47:55 AM(UTC)
Jason T.

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Originally Posted by: Jim7216 Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
With my airplane set up with throws adequate to fly the sportsman sequence my snap rolls are not very snappy. I am thinking about setting a switch on my transmitter to increase throws for doing snaps. Which is more effective for increasing the roll rate in a snap rudder or aileron?
Thanks,
Jim


Increase your Aileron throws 5% at a time, and try it. once you find the correct amount you can put it on a 2 pos. switch, and voice alert if your radio will do so.
Offline Kevin Wilson  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, August 7, 2019 10:11:41 AM(UTC)
Kevin Wilson

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I hate throwing switches for snaps, so I usually recommend to fly your standard flight mode with enough aileron to snap properly and enough expo to keep it soft around the center.
Offline Jason T.  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, August 7, 2019 11:12:34 AM(UTC)
Jason T.

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After I increased my aileron throws, My snaps improved greatly, along with the rest of the sequence. So i left that rate as my new normal. Everything just seemed more precise, wish i would of figured that out in May instead of the end of July! Blink
Offline Nikolei Zinsli  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, August 7, 2019 12:13:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Steve Sides Go to Quoted Post
With the aircraft bleeding off lots of energy, be sure that you aren't over controlling and getting too deep into the snap. Getting too deep (primarily too much rudder) makes the aircraft lose a bunch of speed and makes recovery more difficult. If you haven't already, I'd suggest setting up your roll rate similar to what Peter Goldsmith's suggestions indicate (more or less based on your feel) and go from there. As a start you might want to reduce the rudder some.


Interesting, my snaps only get too deep if I use full elevator...I've never tried using less rudder, though I think I'd find it difficult to not move the rudder all the way during a snap.
It would be cool to get a picture-in-picture of an advanced/unl pilot routine with one cam on their Tx.
Offline Kevin Wilson  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, August 7, 2019 2:16:59 PM(UTC)
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You can use a rudder to rudder and an elevator to elevator mix that is activated with full throttle and full aileron deflection. That way you are still pegging the sticks, but when on an upline, the elevator and rudder can be reduced to keep from getting too deep into the snap.
Offline Dave Dupre  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, August 7, 2019 6:02:10 PM(UTC)
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Kevin,

Please explain what you mean. I'm thinking if I snap by pulling elevator followed immediately by full aileron and rudder while reducing elevator (the "check mark"), I don't see the elevator to elevator mix doing anything.

Dave
Offline Kevin Wilson  
#14 Posted : Thursday, August 8, 2019 8:01:16 AM(UTC)
Kevin Wilson

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The mix reduces the elevator and rudder automatically so you can get repeatable results. That way at full throttle on an upline, you can pull elevator (full travel) for the pitch departure, then immediately full aileron and rudder and the mix reduces elevator and rudder. If properly set up, your upline snaps, level snaps, and downline snaps will all look about the same, depending on airspeed of course.

Kevin
Offline Dave Dupre  
#15 Posted : Thursday, August 8, 2019 9:58:51 AM(UTC)
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This is what I thought you meant. I tried this a while back, and I struggle to get it right with the logical switches on my Jeti. I had switches based on throttle and stick deflections. However, what I found was that it reduced the elevator and rudder like I wanted, but as I reduced the input the rudder and elevator would jump back a bit. Made the snap look strange. I've since gone back to flying the snap with the "check mark" technique.

It would be nice if the logical switches had a on value and an off value. Turn on at 90% throw, and turn off again at 50% throw.

Dave
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